Gay marriages

[Madner Kami]

My suggestion is: Allow gay marriages in the game, if possible.

I and several other people, want to be able to marry people with the same sex. Some of us may be gay or bisexual in real-life, while others probably just created an avatar of the "wrong" sex and met someone ingame, they fell in love or "love" with and want to marry (without creating a new avatar). Both should be given the possibility to marry, regardless if both their avatars are of the same sex or not. It can be discriminating and annoying, not to be able to marry the beloved person and I think, L2Godz is a place where everyone is allowed to become happy.

P.S.: The poll is anonymous.

[ekillerco]

:o now leny and ema can marry? nice!

[HiYa]

If marriages ingame are unfair just let me know and I will disable all marriages

[longbow]

The issue here is not one of gay marriage. If it comes down to this, then we are going to end up having to disable the system, which I do not think you the community wants. What you do in real life is up to you, and as it is your choice then I seriously do not care as long as you do not infringe upon my right to my own choices. Simple enough so far?

However, consider what I already pointed out here. If we do this, then we would also have to support players having real life choices which include group marriages. There are those in the United States (living in Utah) who have as many as 30+ wives and some with multiple husbands and even a rare group or two of multiple wives and husbands. Where does it end? How far do we have to go to support all these real life choices then? Do we end up with alliances where everyone in the alliance is married to the same person? A marriage of 300 people for extreme example though we all know there are those who would go that far?

So, if it must come down to it, I have to step in and make a clear statement that this idea is extremely harmful to the balance and game play of the server and I will oppose it to the point of advising the admins to disable the custom feature. Those with real life choices of gay marriage can always create opposing sex characters or pardon my saying it but pay for a sex change operation on one of your characters. (I know that sounds twisted but trust me when I say that it is an operation and that it may have negative side effects or you can ask Thorn what happened when HiYa changed his sex on the test server, as in zero ability to log into the test server anymore level of side effects. While it should be a simple change, unfortunately the core is touchy about such changes and can corrupt the character data.)

Ok, I have to point out an issue since the same sex marriage thing keeps coming up. You see, I have a bit of a problem with where this is going. Very simple to understand.

If we allow same sex marriage, then others are going to start up with wanting their choice of marriage type. And before long we will have me coding in group marriages and so on. And no offense, if we allow same sex marriages then we have to allow group marriages. Which then becomes a complete abuse of the system and we have players using that to teleport their entire alliance all over the place.

For those who do not understand the issue I have here, take a look at the history of marriage in the United States. Before the first State allowed same sex marriages and/or the legal union of same sex partners (how ever you want to name it), there was at least one State which legalized having multiple wives and then multiple husbands. Group marriages in other words. So, if we start going down that path, we are going to end up being forced to make a choice between "No Marriages" or "Unrestricted Marriages". And I for one am strongly against it because it leads to abuse of the system on the server.

So please understand this is nothing to do with opinions of same sex marriage, this is about being fair and avoiding a major problem with exploitation. Giving you gay marriages means we also have to agree to the group marriages as well, and LMF's goat marriage maybe. (Okay, the goat thing was a joke, but I am serious on the rest of the issue.) And after having just discussed it with the staff, the issue is pretty much mute, we are not going to open up that can of worms. You can have the vanilla marriage system or no marriage system at all. There will be no expanding that system because of the problems it will create in the long run. So I am sorry, but if you want to marry a player then you need opposing sexes. Or in LMF's case, just chop those little things off him.

[longbow]

HiYa, maybe you should offer character sex changes as an event prize or something. Not often, mind you, since I really do not want to keep taking the server down to do sex changes constantly, maybe a couple a week tops and we do them all at the same time.

[Madner Kami]

If marriages ingame are unfair just let me know and I will disable all marriages

I always thought, you would be a strong supporter on such a thing... Imagine: All the female/female logs you could browse in your free time... :D (no offense intended)

Nay, but seriously: I didn't say it is unfair and it should be obvious, why I didn't choose to write that. I don't want the system to be shut down.

[...]
So please understand this is nothing to do with opinions of same sex marriage, this is about being fair and avoiding a major problem with exploitation.
[...]

Understood and acknowledged (Did I write that hellish word right? My dictionary-slave is sleeping already...). Sorry, that I brought the theme up again. I didn't realize, that it was here already.

But still, there is the problem, that the marriage is a right for only a part of the community. The benefit of a marriage is, to be able to port to the partner. Why should that only be allowed to people of opposite sex? Ema said the right words here (http://www.l2godz.com/board/showpost.php?p=11670&postcount=17). There is an obvious reason, that mass-marriages are not a good idea, but why locking people out, that are of the same sex? The marriage system would still be the same: Two Partners, who can port to each other, nothing more. As I said, I understand and acknowledge your reason, but I can't accept or support it. And a sex-change is not a valid option, to solve this (and this is not only, because the avatar could be destroyed or harmed)...

Or in LMF's case, just chop those little things off him.

Um... chop things off from the goat or LMF? :eek:

P.S.: By the way, would be nice, if the .gotolove command ports one to the actual position of the partner, when the casting period has ended, not to where the partner is, when the casting starts. In one minute, many things can change...

[carlost]

well i cannot careless more if gais wanna marry let them marry up to them xD

now if we gonna screw up the server just to make that happend then NO

[HiYa]

I always thought, you would be a strong supporter on such a thing... Imagine: All the female/female logs you could browse in your free time... :D (no offense intended)

Nay, but seriously: I didn't say it is unfair and it should be obvious, why I didn't choose to write that. I don't want the system to be shut down.



Understood and acknowledged (Did I write that hellish word right? My dictionary-slave is sleeping already...). Sorry, that I brought the theme up again. I didn't realize, that it was here already.

But still, there is the problem, that the marriage is a right for only a part of the community. The benefit of a marriage is, to be able to port to the partner. Why should that only be allowed to people of opposite sex? Ema said the right words here (http://www.l2godz.com/board/showpost.php?p=11670&postcount=17). There is an obvious reason, that mass-marriages are not a good idea, but why locking people out, that are of the same sex? As I said, I understand and acknowledge your reason, but I can't accept/support it. And a sex-change is not a valid option, to solve this...



Um... chop things off from the goat or LMF? :eek:

P.S.: By the way, would be nice, if the .gotolove command ports one to the actual position of the partner, when the casting period has ended, not to where the partner is, when the casting starts. In one minute, many things can change...

I didnt look you up ingame but you really seem like a nice person. I really wish I could help you.

[IceCream]

imo gay marriage is really wrong.

[sexyleny]

nvm.

*message too short*

[PcBgamer]

NO NO NO and one more time NO *POINT!!!!!!!!!!*.

[longbow]

This really isn't an issue over gay marriage. Which I think is where the problem exists. No matter your real life sex and sexual preferences, you have the ability to create characters of either sex. As such ALL players do have the ability to use said system as it stands right now. Which means there is no need to change it.

Changing it for a real life preference means that to be fair we have to change it for all the current real life preferences, including group marriages. That is where the problem starts. So you have the ability to use the current system no matter your real life sex and do not need to bring real life pref's in here. Remember, this is a marriage system not a buddy system. That means if we change it for "life preferences" then we have to consider all the recognized "life preferences" just to be fair. Maybe instead you should be requesting a new feature called the "buddy system" instead? That leaves out the issues over predjudice and bias and flaming and exploits, etc.

Oh, and "acknowledge" is the correct spelling, so you had it correct.

LMF, not the poor goat.

As for the location for gotolove, the reason we use the location when casting starts vice ends is because the bonehead who wrote it over at L2Jfree didn't think ahead? No, actually it is because when you send the packet to call the skill use it can store information, but once that has happened it is handled by the AI, not the client, so the chance to call a method to store data past. In order to make it use the partner's current location at the end of the cast, you must create a new teleport system or change all the old teleports to use a modified teleport system which defines the type of teleport. Currently the core supports a "vanilla" teleport system that only accepts a destination when the initial call for a teleport is made. In the case of gotolove, that call is made when the server receives the packet from your client with that ./ command in it. Can it be done? Of course, and in the future if the admins say it is ok, then I will be happy to add support for it. But right now rebuilding the teleport system is low on my list since it actually works as intended for all retail base features.

[Twilight]

Ok i think there been some cheating going on here, the pole has managed to ge 64 no's i think a GM/Mod needs to start a new one or look into how the hell there got 64.

and no comment on what i voted :P

[longbow]

I noticed that too. One of the reasons that I suspect this is getting a lot of attention from the anti-gay population. It could be 64 different people or just a handful of very devout anti-gay people using dummy accounts. And I am strongly considering locking this thread because this is heading in an ugly direction.

There is a better way to go about this, without bringing in topics which seem to have my inbox up to 108 PM's now and some very ugly remarks being made. Twilight, if you or ema would like, how about suggesting a buddy system instead? I would be happy to support such a system that has no tags assigned to it such as gay or race or other such. Give it a simple outline of restrictions and how you want it to work, and I'll stamp my name beside it in full support and even build it during one of these late night can't sleep sessions. And really wish I could sleep right now because there isn't anyone to talk to and if I turn my music up then I can't hear if grandpa needs help.

[Twilight]

Leny and Ema btw not Twi and Ema, ema like to pick on me T.T

[longbow]

LOL I named ema because she started the first thread on this topic a week or two ago. I named you because you had just posted and have been very helpful with testing so I knew I could trust you to help the server with this. Either one works, or anyone else for that matter but it's easier to name 2 individuals that name 100+. ;)

[Twilight]

I dont see why people are finding it a problem. Because its not Real life its just a game, not like OMG im gonna die in real life from these kind of people. If people have such a prb with gay marriges they should look around a bit more when they are walking down the street.

[stratos]

well, i voted before reading the post and their answers, so i voted YES (if possible off course). Dont forget, we are not talking about GAY-STRAIGHT, it would be a tactic adventage if Teleport to Lover is actually working.... anyway, it's almost the same for me, cuz i m single. and that's how i'll end ^^ (no one to cry my many deads ingame lol)

[Madner Kami]

LMF, not the poor goat.

Pew... I already feared for the poor goat...

As for the location for gotolove, the reason we use the location when casting starts vice ends is because the bonehead who wrote it over at L2Jfree didn't think ahead?[...]

Interesting, thanks for the information.

There is a better way to go about this, without bringing in topics which seem to have my inbox up to 108 PM's now and some very ugly remarks being made.

Wow... I didn't think, that it would be such a problem. And I'm a bit jelous, because I got not a single PM, for I started the thread and you talked against it. Well, not that I want such "nice" PMs... Anyways, thanks for your attention and sorry for bringing you into trouble.

I vote the poll to be closed, probably even the thread. (Would be interesting to know, if the "no" voters are really in such big numbers.)

P.S.: And thanks to all those, that were honest enough, to write their personal opinion into this thread.

[longbow]

Yes Madner, it's gotten so far out of hand it isn't funny anymore. I just deleted my entire inbox again because for some reason people pm me over issues like this. I've had so many pm's wanting to know who the "gays" are so they can kill them off the server that I'm sick of it, and a few threats of legal crap if they don't get their gay marriage. What the bloody hell??? This is a GAME, not real life.
Now they have pissed HiYa off to the point that he is just going to disable the marriage system completely. Which is sad because he was going to enable same sex marriages until the threats started coming in. Even the buddy system idea has now been shot down because he's that upset over the threats.

[Madner Kami]

*banging my head against the next best wall*

Legal crap? As if the anti-gays weren't wierd enough... I'm really sorry...

[SumTingWong]

wow. this is just incredible to hear. I cannot believe that any players on this server would be so out of control.


that sucks LB. and it sucks that you have to deal with private messages like that.

[Twilight]

also .gotolove has also been disable....

[Aeowyn]

I cannot believe that so many people are taking a game and bringing real life into it. As Longbow has said many many many times, this is a game and real life issues should not be brought into it. In real life I don't go PK'ing my neighbors because their children have stormed into our yard and broken our swing set. Nor do I craft my own armor or weapons to defend my home. In real life my friends aren't Orcs, Dark Elves or Dwarves. In real life I can't jump on my strider because I'm late for a meeting. In real life I don't wear heavy skimpy armor. In real life I don't have millions and millions of gold. And no matter how narrow minded I believe someone else's beliefs may be, I don't go pushing my beliefs on other people in game or out. This isn't the military. There is no "don't ask don't tell" policy. What ppl do at home is their own business. NO ONE ELSES!!!!!! This is a video game. A game that YOU, as the player, should be allowed to play it how YOU want it to be played, with the exclusion of breaking the rules of course.

[PcBgamer]

BRAVO..... *CLAP,CLAP,CLAP*
these words... howe you thought and wrote everything... it is SO COOL and write... :) TOTALY RESPECT :)
but one thing... here is the talk about the Gay Marriages.... and my offer wold be plz close the thread... i dont have eny bad thoughts about the gay thing... bot it is so crealy sead NO and why to discus agean? NO means NO and thats it...
sry if i will hurt some1 but BE REAL.... live for real... think for real... not for: "O DUDE LOOK in this server we can be GAY team".... (no offens...)

[SumTingWong]

that's right babe you tell it like it is!

heh you totally nailed it there too. I just don't understand how anyone playing a video game could bring so much of real life into it. I mean, we are wielding powerful spells, and large swords in this game. Obviously that has nothing to do with real life and real life prejudices. For people to bring down the heat upon the admins of this server for something and harmless as same sex marriages in Lineage 2 is just plain retarded.

We are loosing dev time on this, we are loosing nice features over this, we are loosing players over this. It's ridiculous. What's next? Gay pride marches in Giran Square? or Anti-Gay rallies in FG? I mean come on people GET A GRIP. It's a game.


I feel for the admins on this crap. There they are, spending their free time creating and maintaining a world for US to play in, where we can be anything we want, and have a blast doing it, and they have to put up with THIS???? It's a messed up situation to say the least.

I think a giant, bucket of admiration should go out to LongBow, HiYa and the rest for even putting up with this crap for a second. A lot of people would have just hung it up at this point. So as a side note to all this guys... a sincere and heart-felt "Thanks"



p.s. - the neighbor kids didn't really break the swingset did they? lol
p.p.s - we'll talk about the skimpy armor thing later Aeo ;)

[PcBgamer]

:) SUM and Aeowyn :) dam :) i agree with you :) and dam you speak very nice :) i love that one with the gay parad in giran :D it wold be cool to see :D jk... :D

[longbow]

If the forums will behave then I will close this thread. I also took the time earlier to flush the 111 (was 108 but I got 3 more just in the time it took for me to tell HiYa what the count was up to now). Dead tired as I am, I know that I am being a bit harsh over the mess, so if I offended anyone then I am sorry. It was just a bit much for me to tollerate without getting more than an hour of sleep at a time each day. Legal threats while they would very likely lose the case still cost money and the discrimination gets on my nerves. While I am not gay in the least, I am very much a firm believer in not forcing one's own beliefs upon another person.